Front Page Reviews & AIR

Floating Action is the stage name for singer/songwriter Seth Kauffman.  When he’s not on the road touring or jetting across the country to produce up-and-coming acts, Seth lives just outside of Asheville, NC, in Black Mountain.  It was there that I was able to catch up with him to discuss making music, record labels, and his love of Robert Johnson, Motown, and yes, Paula Abdul.

 

Me:  This month’s theme at Mule Variations is “Starting from Scratch” in honor of the New Year and New Year’s resolutions, etc.  And I wanted to ask you a question in relation to that.  Have you ever been at a point musically where you left it all behind and started from scratch?

 

Seth:  Yes (laughs).  I’ve had a lot of those.  One was when I made an album with my friend Bryan Cates—he’s prolific, and sings like Sam Cooke and Mick Jagger and he’s like, the best songwriter, but he’s got kind of a shoot-himself-in-the-foot weirdness about him.  We grew up together and were kind of like musical buddies, and we made an album that was a Black Keys/White Stripes type thing.  We played as a two-piece a lot.  We were doing that even before they were.  Then we got involved with a label called HighTone Records.  Are you familiar with them?  They’re famous for putting out, like, Mississippi Fred McDowell and other old blues stuff.  And then their main guy was Robert Cray for a while.  Anyway, we knew all their blues releases and we were like, “Let’s send the album to them.”  And they loved it.  And they were gonna put it out.  So we came up with this plan and we moved to California—you know Forest Falls?  It’s near Redlands, in the mountains up towards Big Bear.  Anyway, we had friends that worked at a camp and we lived there, and we were gonna try and make it in L.A.  But it was still 2 hours from L.A. and we didn’t really go there that much.  But then Bryan began to have some meltdowns, and then he split and kind of abandoned me.  And HighTone passed on the whole thing.  That was definitely a “Start from Scratch” moment.

 

Me:  Wow.

 

Seth:  And so then I came back here and played with Abe Reid for two years.  And Bryan Cates actually played second guitar in that group for a little bit—we had remained friends.  And at some point Bryan came up to me and was like, “Hey, do you want to record an album?  I’ve got some songs…”  So he brought his equipment up.  I had never recorded anything myself at that point, but we made this album of songs he wrote and it was incredible.  But at that point, because of what had happened with HighTone, I was, like, I can’t play music with him.  But we were still friends so we made this great album and then it ate at me, “We should start a band; it’s the best stuff out there.  It’s so good.”  So I called his girlfriend and asked her, “What do you think?  Should we try to do this?”  And she said, “You’ve got to.  It’s just so good.”  And so we start a band that’s called Choosy Beggars.  Abe Reid was one level of goodness, and Choosy Beggars was just exponentially better.  So that was a new chapter; quitting Abe Reid and playing with Bryan again.  It was hard to do.  And we did Choosy Beggars for maybe two years.  And I just poured myself into it totally, but anytime something good happens Bryan withdraws and steps back.

 

Me:  Why is that?  What do you think that is?

 

 

Seth:  I may never know.  I think he’s just a scared-of-success kind of guy.  I thought if enough people believed in him it would be OK.  That’s what I thought then.  If I could just get him to a point where he doesn’t have to do anything except write and perform, it’ll be fine.  But I was wrong.  All this weird stuff happened.  We actually recorded with some of the Black Crowes guys; they heard the stuff and were like, “This is the shit.”  We did these demos with them in Nashville and Bryan was the go to guy—the one talking to them.

 

Me:  Was it just the two of you guys?

 

Seth:  Yeah.  And so months went by and I didn’t hear anything.  And Bryan doesn’t like to be asked anything, so I just decided I’d let him tell me when something happens.  But finally, too much time went by and I was like, “Whatever happened with that?”  And he was like, “Oh, I don’t know.”  And then I actually heard from my wife’s brother who lives in DC; a friend of his worked at a label in Nashville.  And so my wife’s brother said to his friend, “My brother-in-law plays in a band: Choosy Beggars.”  And his label friend says, “Oh really?  It’s a shame what happened.  That’s amazing.  It’s too bad what happened.”  And my brother-in-law says, “What do you mean?”  I guess The Black Crowes had tried to call Bryan and he just wouldn’t return their calls.  And I asked Bryan about it and he was like, “Yeah, they wanted my address to send me the finished product.  I wasn’t going to give ‘em my address.”  So that was another huge beginning, when he said those words.  I remember exactly where I was in Chapel Hill after a gig, and I was like, I can’t have anything to do with Bryan anymore.  He’s still my best friend in the whole world, but I realized we shouldn’t be in a band together anymore.  I only get so worked up about it because I believe in him so much and hold that music so close to my own heart.  Anyway, that’s what made me really start recording my own music.

 

Me:  And so how long have you been doing your own solo stuff?

 

Seth:  In 2003 I was starting to record rhythms—not really writing songs—just cool African sounding drums.  And then I’d sort of put music with it.  And I guess I gradually put together enough material to have an album.  And then I played it for some people and they kind of freaked out.  And so I thought, maybe I should do more.  And so right after Choosy Beggars ended in 2005 I put out a solo album on HighTone.

 

Me:  Were you calling yourself Floating Action at that point?

 

Seth:  No, it was just called Seth Kauffman.

 

Me:  Is Floating Action currently on a label? 

 

Seth:  Well, sort of.  I’ve been on Park the Van—have you heard of that label?

 

Me:  I hadn’t heard of them prior to seeing their name in association with you.

 

Seth:  Do you know the band Dr. Dog?

 

Me:  Sure, I’ve heard the name.

 

Seth:  I guess they started Park the Van, and they got big together because that was the label they’re on.

 

 

Me:  Did you release your most recent record [2011’s Desert Etiquette] with them?

 

Seth:  Yeah, but even that’s kind of a sticky story.  I don’t know what’s happening, but they just owe all their bands tons of money; they owe everybody money and everybody’s mad at them.  We went on a big tour and they were supposed to have the vinyl and CDs ready, and they were like, “Oh, we can’t do the vinyl.  It’s really expensive.”  And I’m like, “Ahh, that sucks, but whatever.”  Then, right before the tour, they’re like, “We can’t do CDs either.”  It's just frustrating.  I mean, they have been die-hard fans of me, and willing to try their best to put my stuff out, when no other labels would bend an ear, and I really appreciate everything they've done, but still...  Like, they’ve gotten a few licensing things for me, but then they kind of, um, keep the money.  You always have to fight with them to get it.

 

Me:  It’s one of those things that’s interesting; a lot of big major labels get a bad rap—and deservedly so—for screwing people over.  And it’s not that small labels all screw people over, but you run into a lot of the same problems with small labels as you do with big labels.  Even the iconic indie labels like Sub Pop—they were basically insolvent for a long time.  They tried to borrow money from Kurt Cobain to put out [Nirvana’s debut album] Bleach.

 

Seth:  Huh.  That’s not encouraging.

 

Me:  Well, I mean, Sub Pop just didn’t have the money to put it out.  And it’s just interesting.  Money has always been a problem for labels, and it will probably always be a problem: either having enough money, or how it’s being managed.  A lot of people don’t realize that music isn’t something most people get rich from—I heard once that 95% of bands on major labels end up owing the label money.

 

Seth:  I know.  That’s why I’m kind of pissed at Park the Van, because I know that they’ve gotten their cut of stuff.  I mean they have gotten money.  But then I’m also grateful when they pay me some of it.  You’ve just got to keep fighting them, which sucks.

 

Me:  Have you been doing stuff recently that isn’t associated with them?  Like trying to get licensing through other avenues?

 

Seth:  Well, I’m also grateful to them because they got me on Bug Music, so I have a publishing deal with them which is killer.  But the thing I’m wrestling with now is that Park the Van qualifies as an acceptable label [for Bug].  And if I went to a new label, that label has to have sold over 25,000 units of an album.  That’s part of the thing, just to be able to qualify as a label that Bug will work with.

 

Me:  So you wouldn’t be able to work directly with Bug as an independent artist?

 

Seth:  Right.  So I’ve got some friends in bands in Nashville who are starting a label and they wanted me to be on it.  And I was going to do it, but then I realized… we can’t do it.  I mean, I could if I didn’t care about the Bug thing.  But I do.

 

Me:  At this point, are you able to do music as your main thing?

 

Seth:  Yes.

 

Me:  How does that look for you?  Is it mostly through touring?  Or selling albums?  Or licensing?  Or a combination of all those things?

 

Seth:  It’s producing, too.  And licensing.  As for tours…  It seems to go really well when we tour, and it’s getting better—we went to the West Coast this spring and played all these towns we had never played, and people knew who we were, which was… different.  The way our band works, it’s just me, basically.  And I pay the other guys.  So I bear the brunt of, like, paying for gas and stuff.  Some bands split everything evenly, but… basically I go way into debt whenever I tour.  The further away, the more debt.

 

 

Me:  On the albums you play everything, right?  All the instruments?

 

Seth:  Right.

 

Me:  Do you have an instrument that you’d call a primary instrument?

 

Seth:  I don’t know.  Maybe guitar?  Sometimes I would have said drums.  I’ve played with some other people, too.  Like Shannon Whitworth?

 

Me: (shaking head, no)

 

Seth:  Well she’s a bluegrass girl from Brevard [North Carolina].  In that bluegrass world, she’s a pretty heavy hitter.  Like, you haven’t heard of her.  Most people haven’t heard of her.  But somehow she gets paid a ton to play shows.

 

Me:  Well, I’m not a bluegrass aficionado…

 

Seth:  Anyway, I play drums with her and that kind of offsets my own losses (laughs).  I’d do Floating Action tours, then tour with her and actually make money with that.  Recently, I’ve been playing bass with her too, and then drums with my feet at the same time.

 

Me:  So you guys tour as a duo?

 

Seth:  No, she’s got a pedal steel player and another guitar player.

 

Me:  But you’re like the whole rhythm section?

 

Seth:  (laughs) Yes.  It’s pretty fun.  And challenging…

 

Me:  I’ve also heard that you’ve worked with Band of Horses.  What did you do with them?  Producing?  Engineering?

 

Seth:  Well, two of those guys—the bass player and the guitar player—are Asheville people.  And they’ve played in my band and I’ve played in theirs.  And so when Band of Horses covered Cee Lo Green’s song “Georgia”, they got the Georgia marching band to do it, and then they sent me that track and asked me to put stuff on it.  So I did like bass, drums, and guitar.  But Bill [Reynolds]—who’s the bass player and my friend—he’s a producer also, and I work with him.  I don’t know what you’d call my position, but I’m like a producer too, maybe a sub-producer?  And I play everything, too.  We’ve produced Lissie; have you heard of her?

 

Me: No.

 

Seth:  She’s on Columbia.  She’s kind of like Stevie Nicks.  And actually, I’m going to L.A. this month to do her next record.  Hmm… What else have we done?  Well, we did Tyler Ramsey [of Band of Horses], his solo stuff.  It’s really good; you should check it out.  And then we did a band from Austrailia called Georgia Fair, which nobody’s ever heard of.  They’re just these two surfer-dudes from Australia and it’s really good.

 

 

Me:  So do you and Bill have a studio that you work out of?

 

Seth:  Not really.  There’s one in Asheville called Echo Mountain.  It’s a nice one.

 

Me:  How have you found the Asheville music scene to be?  As a place to be based out of?

 

Seth:  It’s probably, um, not good.  I heard someone talking about the Asheville music scene and how it’s weird because no bands are like each other.  It’s eclectic.  That’s what’s cool about it and what’s not cool about it, I guess.

 

Me:  You mean there’s no “defining sound” of Asheville.

 

Seth:  Right.  Though I guess lately there have been a ton of bluegrass bands.  But there aren’t really bands doing what Floating Action is doing.

 

Me:  How would you describe what you’re doing?

 

Seth:  (laughs) I don’t know.  I feel like I try to do anything that has soul, I guess.  That’s basically it.

 

Me:  The album [Desert Etiquette] is pretty mellow, but when I saw you live it was more upbeat, kind of funky.

 

Seth:  It’s weird because everybody describes it as something different.  I’ve given up trying to figure it out.

 

Me:  Is there a sound you’re going for with the band?

 

Seth:  When I first started, I was never a songwriter, and I just had cool ideas for rhythms.  And even now, drums are usually where I start.  What’s a drumbeat that’s never really been tried before?  Then, what’s a melody that’s never been done?  I’m really just trying to make things up that don’t exist yet.  And then, when I play everything myself on the recordings, it’s just trying to get everything to interweave and interlock.  I like the way that James Brown stuff—circa 1970—interlocks.  And then afrobeat stuff too, where there’s like three or four guitars, but they’re all doing something really simple, but weird, and it all sort of fits together.  And Motown is probably one of my biggest influences.

 

Me:  What would you say your biggest influences are, in addition to Motown?

 

Seth:  Rolling Stones also… and a lot of African stuff… That Bon Iver record is good.  I’ve been listening to a lot of bad stuff, too, like Paula Abdul “Rush, Rush” (laughs).  I was in the Kiwanis thrift store in Black Mountain and I got this Paula Abdul cassette; it’s like dance remixes of her hits.  And it’s killer!  I’ve transferred it from cassette to CD on my computer.  I could burn you a copy…  I think that’s where I am with everything right now.  You might find something that’s ironic, but kind of good, but then you move on to “Rush, Rush”, which is cheesy even by Paula Abdul standards.

 

Me:  (laughs) I just remember the video for that song.  Do you remember the video?  With Keanu Reeves?

 

Seth:  Yeah.

 

Me:  And they’re drag racing or something.  Man, I haven’t seen that in probably twenty years…

 

Seth:  My bass player and I played this weird, kind of art gallery show in Charleston this summer, and they put us up on this island you could only get to by boat.  And we had this little house.  And there was a stereo so we turned on the radio the next morning and there was “Rush, Rush”.  And we were like, “Ohhh.”  I mean, it just hit us perfectly…

 

Me:  (laughs) Had you already been listening to it at that point?

 

Seth:  No, that’s what got us…  There’s a violin solo in the middle…

 

 

Me:  (laughing) So it’s kind of random stuff that gets you these days?

 

Seth:  Oh, I don’t know.  If you asked me this five or more years ago—like in college and high school—I just hated everything that was happening.  I guess Nirvana was right when I was in high school, and I was like, “This is terrible…”  For me, everything had to be like Robert Johnson blues, basically, for me to think it was good.

 

Me:  How did you get into that stuff?  You don’t generally think of high school kids listening to Robert Johnson.  Were your parents music people?

 

Seth:  No.  I mean, my mom can play piano a little bit.  I have two older sisters and she had us all on the Suzuki method.  So one played cello, one played viola, and I played violin.

 

Me:  So how did you end up at Robert Johnson?

 

Seth:  Maybe hearing oldies on the radio—my first mix tapes were taping things off the radio like Sam Cooke and The Drifters and Rolling Stones.  And then from there, The Rolling Stones, you figure out what they were copying…

 

Me:  Do you still listen to old blues?

 

Seth:  Yeah, but not as much.  I probably listened to that for a good ten years straight, and now it’s so ingrained in me that I don’t put it on every day.

 

Me:  So what didn’t you like about the contemporary music of your high school years, like Nirvana?

 

Seth:  I don’t know.  Maybe because it wasn’t black music with funky rhythms.  I guess I just had this idea of what was good, but I don’t know exactly why I hated it.

 

Me:  Do you still hate that stuff?

 

Seth:  I’m trying to picture Nirvana now, and I don’t think that stuff is great.  But it doesn’t annoy me the same way anymore.  I think it’s fine.  Do you love them?  Are they like your favorite band?

 

Me:  Well, no (laughs).  I would say Nirvana is overrated.  That’s my short answer.  It’s not that I don’t like them, I just think their legacy got overblown after Kurt Cobain died.

 

 

Seth:  You know what song “Cannonball”?

 

Me:  By The Breeders?

 

Seth:  Yeah.  I liked that one a lot.  And “Can’t Fight the Seether” [by Veruca Salt].  I remember thinking nothing was OK in music at the time, but then I’d hear those songs and think, “That’s kind of good.”  And I thought Black Crowes were OK.  I’m embarrassed to say it.  Bryan Cates got me into them, and I guess they were like the only band I thought was OK at the time…

 

Me:  Between then and now has your perspective changed?

 

Seth:  Yeah, definitely.  For instance, I remember being anti-Bob Marley then, just because it was such a classic “high-school-white-dude-stoner” thing to be into the Bob Marley Legend CD.  But then Bryan and I went to Jamaica during college on a missions trip and kind of came into reggae from a different direction.  And I remember finally thinking, “This is OK.”  And then I got way into reggae.  And even now I think of Bob Marley as the best reggae performer, even though he’s the most cliché guy.  But Motown has always been OK to me.  I remember hearing Gladys Knight’s version of “I Heard it Through the Grapevine” right after high school and something kind of clicked, something about that Latin beat mixed in.  And then you start to put together what funk is.  And I’m a huge James Brown fan, but like James Brown pre-1972, before funk blew up in the 70s.  And then by the time it got to Red Hot Chili Peppers, it was just a formula.  I mean, it’s funk, but it’s not interesting to me.

 

Me:  So what’s coming up for you?

 

Seth:  Well, I’ve got a new album—newer than Desert Etiquette—that’s all done.  It’s called Fake Blood.  It’s mixed; it just needs to be mastered.  I’m looking for a label, but I’m trying not to force it.  Maybe it will come out on Park the Van.  We’ll see.  I feel like I’m slowly gaining respect from people, like Band of Horses and Jim James of My Morning Jacket and Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys and the guys in Dr. Dog are all fans of Floating Action.  I‘ve got all these kind of famous bands that love it, but I just haven’t figured out how to get it all to click yet.